Hey, this is Joe Bakhmoutski and welcome to Simplify Cancer Podcast! Today you meet with Lee Silverstein who had cancer twice in his life, once as a child and once as an adult. He has such an incredible attitude and he’s using it to live the life the best way that he can and to help other people through his podcast called We Have Cancer. Through this podcast, Lee shares information, inspiration, and hope for living the best life you can despite cancer. Here are some things that we cover today:
- Lee’s inspirational A-G-E approach to dealing with cancer
- One powerful mindset that can help you during treatment
- How relationships and friendships can change after cancer
- and much, much more!
Joe: Lee, I love your photos on Facebook and on your website and with you and your Batman gear. Can you talk about that?
Lee: I’ve been dealing with colon cancer for eight years. The largest colon cancer support organisation in the U.S. is the Colorectal Cancer Alliance. They do a run, a 5k run, and a walk at different cities all over the country. Each weekend a different city. The first one is always in Tampa, Florida, which was last weekend. Instead of giving out, like most of these events, they give out t-shirts, but because it’s the other part of the body, they give out boxer shorts. That’s where the undi-name comes from. People dress in funny costumes. I was always a batman fan when I was a kid, so we called my team: Lee’s Superheroes, and we all dressed up with batman shirts and shorts and boxers and all of that.
Joe: Yes, that’s fantastic, Lee. I love that because I think both you and me, and I guess actually many of us, have really uncomfortable cancers in the most uncomfortable parts of the body. Like, I had testicular cancer, you had colon cancer. It feels weird to start to talk about it because it’s private and sensitive, right?
Lee: True, but I tell people when it comes to my disease, everybody uses the bathroom, everybody uses the toilet, and because we all do it, it shouldn’t be something embarrassing. I know it is, but I tell people: Don’t let embarrassment kill you. I interview so many people on my podcast who either they themselves waited and waited too long because they were embarrassed to say anything, to talk to their doctor. Then the disease was more advanced than it should have been. What’s worse? Being a little bit embarrassed or having to go through chemotherapy?
Joe: Yes, exactly. I think that’s why it’s even more important, like you say, to talk about it and to be honest and upfront. Just so people feel more comfortable to show up at the doctors and say, “Can you have a look at this? Can you check it out?”
Lee: Absolutely. You’re absolutely right.
Joe: Lee, I was really shocked to hear your story that you really first had cancer as a child. What was that experience like?
Lee: Well, from what I remember, when I was four or five years old, I’m surprised how much I do remember, the story behind that is when I was growing up, I had one sister at the time, another sister came along a few years later. We were always getting sick, especially in the winter time, strep throat, throat infections. When I was a kid, the popular surgery was to have your tonsils out if you kept getting throat infections. They said, “We think we should take his tonsils out.”
My parents took me to the hospital the day before the surgery just to do all the testing and bloodwork and all of that. Something showed up very unusual in my blood test. They said, wait a minute, this is not good, something’s going on here. They did some tests and found a spot on my kidney. It turned out to be a rare form of paediatric kidney cancer called a Wilms Tumour. Now, a Wilms Tumour if caught early, the cure rate is around 90, if not higher, 90 percent. Mine fortunately was caught early. It did cost me my left kidney. I’ve lived my life with one kidney, which people can do.
That experience, even though it happened when I was such a young child, my follow-up, the doctor’s followed me into my early 20s, not so much because there was a concern of a recurrence, because that typically doesn’t happen with the Wilms’ Tumour, I think it was more for their clinical records, that we follow this patient for 20 years, etc. Even though it initially took place when I was very young, I was, when I stopped the follow-up, I think I already, no, it was a year or two before I had my first child. That whole part of it was a vivid memory.
The impact that had one me was even though there is no studies that show a correlation between that cancer and future cancers, I just felt that someday cancer and I would cross paths again. It wasn’t a weight, it wasn’t a burden that I carried around, please understand, I’ve always been a very positive person, but it was just, for a lack of a better word, a hunch.
They’re starting to find that what does happen is when children are treated, especially with heavy doses of radiation, which is a major part of what my treatment was for that disease, heavy radiation in my abdomen, that that could lead to cancers in an adult. What a coincidence, that the cancer I had happened to be in my abdomen, colon cancer. It was discovered just from a routine colonoscopy. I had turned 50 and my doctor said, “Do you know what you get to do now that you’re 50?” It’s like, okay. I went and I didn’t have any symptoms and woke up to find I have colon cancer.
Joe: Wow, what a shock. It also must have been, just going back and thinking to how it affected you growing up. I know that when our son had meningitis when it was two years old, thankfully we made it through, but we now the last few years just became so paranoid about everything. That it just affects how we live our normal lives. It must have really affected you growing up and your parents, as well.
Lee: It wasn’t until I became a parent did, I really start to understand what that had to be like, to be barely five years old and to be told, “Your child has cancer.” I still have trouble. I couldn’t imagine if I was the parent and heard those words. I’m sure it impacted how I was raised. I feel like my parents were a bit more protective of me than my younger sisters, with those concerns. That weight of what if it comes back for a number of years weighing on them. I’m sure it had long-lasting affects. Sure, just like you and your son with meningitis, I’m sure it was equally as challenging for my parents.
Joe: Yes, absolutely. We all remember that moment when you talk to your specialist, he tells you you’ve got cancer, that really stands out. What went through your mind?
Lee: Well, because I just had that feeling that someday… my reaction was, and I don’t know if it’s part that or just part the stereotypical guy in me, right, was, okay, what do we got to do? I was just three or four months into a relationship with my now wife of six years. We had just started dating. I happened to be at her house when I got the phone with the results. I think she was more visibility upset than I was because just somehow, I wasn’t expecting it, but I wasn’t shocked.
I know that might not make sense, but that was my reaction. The more challenging time was the phone call that we received a year and a half later when we found out that it had metastasized. That was really tough. I think that was tougher than the original diagnosis, actually.
Joe: Yes, I think I know what you mean, as well. I had a similar experience, where initially I thought that my cancer diagnosis was contained to the testicle. Later in, a couple of months, I found out that it’s going to spread to my lymph nodes. That’s when it really hit me. For me, personally, it was more the fact that I thought it was going to go away, but I found out that it’s still there. That took me by surprise. Did you go through a similar experience?
Lee: Well, my story with the metastasis, originally, my original diagnosis was stage two. I talked to three different doctors regarding the suggested treatment plan post-surgery. Obviously, it had to come out, so they took out about 18 inches of my colon. Then the question was, well, what, if anything, do we do next? I’m very fortunate to live very close to one of the top-ten cancer centres in the U.S., the Moffit Cancer Centre in the Tampa, Florida. I talked to the oncologist there. He said, “For stage two, typically, we don’t recommend chemotherapy, the potential harm outweighs the minuscule benefit that people would get at stage two. We recommend just watching this.”
About three months later, so now we’re talking about five months’ post-surgery, I had my first “routine” CT scan and bloodwork. A few days later, my wife and I, my girlfriend, I should say, at the time, I took her on her first trip to New York City. We were enjoying the sites. I’m originally from New York, so I know the city very well. I was just enjoying seeing it through her eyes. My phone rings. I don’t know how it in Australia, but in the U.S., there’s a saying that if the nurse calls, it’s good news. If the it’s the doctor calling, not so much.
I answer the phone, “Lee, it’s Dr. Strasberg.” I was like, oh no. He said, “Your first CT scan came back and there’s a spot on your liver. We need to get you in for a PET scan.” I explained I was on vacation. He said, “Well, enjoy the rest of vacation, try not to let it bother you.” I was like, that’s easy for you to say. I had my few minutes there. We tried out best to enjoy the rest of the trip. Came back, had the PET scan, the PET scan came back negative. He said, “Okay, it must be something benign, but we’ll just keep an eye on it.” This was in September of 2011.
That New Year’s Eve, I asked Linda to marry me. Fast-forward to 2012, December 1st, we got married. We went for our honeymoon. Right after our honeymoon, it was time for my next three-month scan, six-month scan, whatever it was. This had just become something that we checked off our to-do list. Didn’t really worry about it. It had been almost a year and a half. Just go for a scan, everything’s fine, see you in a few months.
Go for scans. That kind of thing. He walks in and the look on his face was a little different this time. He said, “That spot on your liver has gotten bigger. I want to do a biopsy.” We’re like, okay. I’m sure it’s nothing, it was nothing last time. You said it was benign. A few days after Christmas, we had the biopsy. At four o’clock on New Year’s Eve, we had just bought a bottle of champagne to celebrate New Year’s Eve. We were three hours away from our first New Year’s Eve. We made a reservation to a very nice restaurant.
We had our first New Year’s Eve as husband and wife. The day before out one-month anniversary, my phone rings at four o’clock. Guess who? “Lee, it’s Dr. Strasberg. I hate calling you on New Year’s Eve with this news, but the biopsy came back positive, your cancer has spread to your liver. I need you in my office on January 2nd.” That was the devastating phone call. We hadn’t made it to 30 days in our wedding anniversary. We kind of laughed about it. After we shed the tears. We said, “We’ve just said in sickness and in health. We didn’t mean now.”
When you get married and you vow to love each other and in sickness and in health, you have visions of being old. Not in a few weeks. Now that it had spread and now that we’re looking at liver surgery, six months of chemotherapy. I’ve been dealing with it ever since. March 21st will be my eight years since I got my initial diagnosis. I had two lung surgeries last year. One most recently in the middle/late November in 2018. The prognosis for me is very good.
Today, I had my first CT scan post-surgery. I’ll get the results the day after tomorrow. I’m excepting to hear good news. My doctor called me an outlier. I think that was his nice way of saying, “I didn’t think you’d be around this long.” I’ll take it.
Joe: Fingers crossed, Lee.
Lee: Thank you, I appreciate that. Meanwhile, I work full time. I’m in the gym every day before work. I feel good. Despite the cancer, Joe, I tell people with zero hesitation, these have been the best eight years of my life. The good things that have happened to me in these last eight years far outnumber what the cancer has brought to me.
Joe: That’s unbelievable, Lee. I’m so glad to hear you say that. I kind of feel the same way, that it’s changed life in so many ways. Tell me, how has the change come about? What do you say that it’s been the best eight years of your life?
Lee: Well, first and foremost, I found love again. Married the woman of my dreams. I was fortunate to be given the second chance at love, both of us. That takes precedence over everything. We have a wonderful family and two grandkids that my wife watches during the week. I’ve taken my experience with cancer and launched the: We Have Cancer podcast, as a way to interview folks like you and me and caregivers and medical professionals.
When I first launched it, it was originally called the colon cancer podcast, and a year ago, with the guidance of some friends, we rebranded it from the colon cancer podcast to We Have Cancer, so we weren’t just limiting these stories to people with colon cancer. The We represents all of us. Every one of us is touched by this disease in some way. If not personally, either through a family member or someone we know has been touched by cancer. We have cancer, we are all affected by this disease.
Opening it up to being able to talk to people like you. No matter what type of disease, what type of cancer they’ve been dealing with has really helped the exposure of the show. So many great things and so many wonderful experiences have come from this podcast. Including speaking events and amazing friendships and connections, and people just reaching out to me through the various social media platforms and email saying, “Thank you. I thought I was alone.
Thank you, I thought I was the only one dealing with this topic. Thank you for giving me hope.” “You interviewed somebody who has lived 20 years? I didn’t think that was possible”, and on and on and on. It’s a great thing to be behind the microphone and talk to the people all over the world. The tagline of the show is offering information, inspiration, and hope to those touched by cancer. If I can help just one person, which I know I have, it’s made it all worth it.
Joe: That is so fantastic, Lee. Thank you so much for what you do in the world. I think It helps so many people, because like you said, when you go through cancer, whether that’s diagnosis or treatment, or even a remission, there are times when you feel alone, when you feel lost, when you don’t know what the hell is going on in your life. You want to hear stories of people who were there, of people who had to deal with it. Hopefully, have come out the end and are here to tell the story.
Lee: Absolutely. I never envisioned when I started this project four years ago, actually, this coming Sunday, the 24th of February will be four years since I did my first episode. I’ve done well over 100 interviews. When I started this, I didn’t know where it was going to go. I didn’t think four years later that I’d still be doing this. I thought there’d be an end to the number of topics I could cover and the number of people to talk to, but it doesn’t end. I get as much out of this from the guests that I meet and talk to as my audience does from hearing these conversations.
The topics we’ve covered, clinical trials, the challenges of being a caregiver, medical marijuana, sex and intimacy. Talking to your kids about your disease. How cancer can impact a marriage, and on and on and on, where they just keep coming. Really, are giving that information, inspiration, and hope that they need, because, as you know, as a survivor, you’re never really done. The impact of the disease touches people in so many ways and affects so many aspects of our life.
As good as many doctors are, they never – they’re there to get rid of the disease. That’s what they do. They’re not prepared to talk to you about how might this impact your intimacy. How this might affect your friends and family? Every person I’ve talked to tells me that the photo, if you will, of the friends and family who were there for them before their disease, is not the same photo of the family and friends that are there for them when they got sick and afterwards. The faces change.
The people we think will be there for us sometimes aren’t, and people we totally don’t expect to be there for us suddenly show up. These are all things we’re not prepared for. Even some of the side-effects and things that the treatments caused.
My doctor didn’t tell me I’d get nose-bleeds from chemotherapy. That was a surprise. The doctor didn’t tell me, “Hey, your taste buds are going to be shot a few days after chemo. You need to eat.” My go-to food was macaroni and cheese, that was all I felt like eating when I was going through chemotherapy.
All they tell you is, “You’re going to be fatigued and you may get nauseous.” That’s true for every chemotherapy. “You may get fatigued and you may get nauseous. There are 50 other things that they don’t tell you. If I can help fill in those gaps, then I think we’ve accomplished something.
Joe: Yes. Lee, you’re so right. You never run out of things to talk about when you talk about cancer. There are all sorts of ways and ways that it affects your life, in a million ways. There’s always something to talk about. Also, like you said, that each person’s story is unique. Each person has their own story and no matter what type of cancer, no matter what stage, we are so complex, we got through a range of emotions and how we experience things on a physical and social level.
Each story is truly unique. You never get tired of hearing that. Lee, I really love the analogy where you talked about the photo of your family and friends, or how that changes from how it was before cancer, to what it’s like after you’ve been diagnosed. Could you talk about what that means for you?
Lee: One of the ways cancer has changed me is, I take things a whole lot less personally. I try to show even more empathy than I did before. Some people have a really hard time dealing with difficult situations. They don’t know how to deal. Since they don’t know what to do, they don’t show up. They’d rather not be there than, in their mind, say or do the wrong thing. Or feel like they’re being a burden. I never looked at that as taking it personally, but I have had some close family members that I barely heard from.
When I did, “We don’t want to bother you.” I want you there. Just call and say I love you and want to let you know we’re thinking of you. Don’t disappear. Then some people who I barely called acquaintances were sharing things on social media and doing things that I never expected. That just blew me away. There’s not a person I’ve spoken to that didn’t have a similar experience. It’s just how life works, I guess.
There’s no solution, but I would tell your listeners if anybody’s experienced that, do not take it personally. It has nothing to do with you. This is someone who, or plural, who don’t know how to handle difficult situations. Try not to judge.
Joe: I completely agree with you. Although, to be honest, Lee, I found that how to do it hard at times. I understand that it’s the people’s issues and how they relate to life, that it isn’t really about me. I kind of felt that, well, it is about me because it’s me who has to deal with the fallout.
Lee: True, yes. Let me backtrack a little bit because I may have oversimplified that. I’m speaking from my personal experience. I’m very active in many of the online social media groups. I have seen, and it’s very sad, where relationships have crumbled through this. Where one partner just couldn’t cope and left. Left the partner who was ill. That one, how do you not take that one personally?
I don’t mean to be trite, I was only speaking from my own personal situation, but you’re absolutely right. Maybe a different way to look at it is that I’ve been incredibly fortunate that the people most close to me were all rallied around me, and all supported me and showed their love. I think you’re right. I have to acknowledge that not everybody is that fortunate.
Joe: Yes, everyone’s experience is different. I think we just all, not matter what comes at you, you just have to find ways of dealing with it. Sometimes it’s hard, and sometimes you just have to focus on the people who are there for you. I was lucky that my wife and my mum were really there for me in a big way. For me, I just try to focus on that, and shift focus away from people who didn’t really step up in the way that I wanted them to.
Lee: Sure. I made some decisions too. My parents lived an hour away, they’re in their 80s, “Do you want us to come up and be with you when you’re going through chemo?” No. I understand we’re 2019, it’s been six years since I started chemo. Let me do that again, it’s been five and a half years since I last had chemo. There you go. I am not in active treatment. I had two surgeries last year, but I’m not currently in any active treatment. When I was going through chemo, “Can we come up and be with you?”
Fortunately, the cancer centre said you’re only allowed to have one guest with you during infusion. Obviously, that was going to be my wife. You know, even if that wasn’t the case, I didn’t want my parents having to relive that again. 45 years later, to have to relive that and watch that again. It was hard enough having to make multiple phone calls to tell them the initial diagnosis. Then the metastasis to the liver and the metastasis to the lung.
Then the lung surgery and keep doing this over and over again. Certainly, when I was in the hospital, they came to visit, even a few months ago, but I didn’t need them sitting there, reliving this, watching me go through chemo. In that case, I felt like it was my job to shield them a little bit.
Joe: Yes, of course, Lee.
Lee: Especially at their age.
Joe: Absolutely. There’s so much for everyone involved, but for yourself especially, if you’re going through treatment, you’re facing too much uncertainty because you don’t really know how things are going to turn out. What helped you during this time?
Lee: My attitude. I made a conscious decision that I was going to do everything I had in my power to have a good attitude and to show a lot of gratitude and I decided right from the get-go, that I was going to go out of my way to make all of the people around me, not just my family and friends, but when I went for treatment and the nurses and the aids and the doctors, that I was going to go out of my way to make them feel really good because I knew that would make me feel good.
I would laugh and I would joke, and I would remember people’s names and when I’d come back two weeks later for the next treatment, I’d say, “Hey, Dan, how’s your son doing in his new job?” He’d look at me like, “You remembered. “Absolutely, I remembered. My first infusion, I still remember, this was kind of funny. They would refer to the combination of drugs as your chemo cocktail. I’m hearing cocktail and I’m thinking of an adult beverage. They get me hooked up and the nurse in the infusion centre, she was a little bit on the older side. She didn’t smile often. That wasn’t working for me.
Once they got me hooked up. It’s four or five hours, whatever it is. I’m on the phone with my youngest sister. The nurse is within earshot but she’s not nearby. I’m saying to my sister, “I don’t understand, they told me we were having cocktails. I don’t see a drink anywhere in sight. I was expecting this thing with a big umbrella in it. This is nonsense.” I said this is nonsense and the nurse looked up at me, she was listening to the whole conversation.
She thought I was ranting and raving. I was just having fun with it. I don’t see cocktails around here. What kind of place is this? That was the approach that I would take. On the last day of chemo, my wife and I brought in cookies and brownies for everybody. That really was my approach, was to smile and say thank you and, how are you? That’s a tough job, I don’t know how those people do it. I just don’t know how. God bless all of them for doing what they do because they truly are angels here on earth.
It was important to me, even to this day, even this morning, to smile and have some fun. That’s what got me through. People always said, “You have an amazing attitude. That has something to do with your success.” I go out of my way to correct people because I think that’s wrong. My attitude has helped me cope. I don’t not for a second believe that my attitude has helped fight this disease.
I’ve met far too many people with attitudes as good if not better than mine that are sadly not here anymore. If all it took was a good attitude to beat this disease, I would not have lost as many friends as I have so far. Probably, sadly, will continue to do so. What it has helped me do is, helped me live and enjoy every day that I do have. It’s been my best way to cope, is to have a great attitude.
Joe: Yes, I love what you just talked about, Lee. It really is true that more positive vibes that you give out, the more you get back. The fact that you made a conscious decision to just express gratitude and do the best that you can to stay happy and to stay positive and to stay connected to people around you.
Lee: Absolutely. It carries over to this day. I take nothing for granted. A beautiful moon in the sky or a beautiful sunset. I stop and I pause and appreciate that. Just little things. I’m very fortunate. My wife and I say it all the time, we are so lucky because we know so many people that haven’t been as lucky as we have. This was a really revealing moment, when I went in, so I had surgery on my left lung and then on my right lung. The first surgery was in July.
I was talking to one of my other cancer buddies. What she said to me I think I’ll never forget, Joe, she said, “Wow, you’re so lucky you get to have surgery.” Think about that for a second. She also has metastasis to the lungs but has too many. Surgery is not an option for her. Can you imagine someone telling you, “Aren’t you lucky that you get to have surgery?” Do you know what? I am lucky that I got to have surgery. There are people out there that that’s not an option.
There are people out there that are scrambling to find options that will work for them because they’re running out of options. I’ve been through one line of chemotherapy. God forbid that I need to go back to chemotherapy. I’ve got three/four/five more different things to try. I haven’t even dented the list. I know people who have gone through all five options and are trying number one again, hoping maybe they’ll get lucky.
It’s not lost on me that being here eight years that we’re incredibly fortunate and we live our lives that way. We don’t wait to do fun things. We don’t want to do the things that we enjoy. We’re going to do them because nothing’s promised but today.
Joe: That is exactly right, Lee. I love your AGE acronym, as well, can you talk about that, too?
Lee: Yes, well, I talked about the A and the G. I talk about being proud of your age. This, actually, I’ve got to give you credit, this comes from my father. My father will be 85 this year. He always says, “I hate it when people complain about their age. Don’t they don’t what the alternative is?” He says, “I am proud that I am 84 years old going on 85.” “This is a contest, he with the highest number wins.” That always stuck with me. I’m 29, I don’t want to tell you how old I am. All this other nonsense. I always thought about being proud of your age. I use age as an acronym.
As the three things that have helped me cope with cancer. The A stands for attitude, the G stands for gratitude, and the E stands for exercise. Those three things have had a major impact on how I have coped with this disease. On a few occasions, I was actually walking on the treadmill, granted, it was pretty slowly, but I was walking nonetheless, with the chemo pump wrapped around my waist.
There was this feeling if, if I’m walking and I’m moving and I’m perspiring. People who are perspiring on a treadmill don’t have cancer, right? That was what my brain said. If I’m having to wipe myself off with a towel, how sick can I actually be? That, again, was something that helped me cope. That’s age: Attitude, gratitude, and exercise.
Joe: Yes, that’s really powerful. If you’re sweating from exercise, that means that things are not really that bad.
Lee: I tell people all the time, one of the first interviews I did was with a woman who is a yoga instructor. She even teaches what she calls gentle yoga. She does sessions over the phone. She acknowledges that we are all in different places. She teaches. She said, “If you have trouble getting out of bed, or if you are in a recliner most of the day because that’s how tired you are and you’re feeling the effects of chemo.
I still can teach you how to do yoga from a chair, or how to do yoga from bed, just to get you moving. Just to get you moving some way.” I’ve interviewed people who have done triathlons in the middle of treatment. I can’t fathom doing a triathlon if I’ve never gone through treatment. Goodness, to be able to do that in the middle of treatment, that is a lot of respect for that. If all you can do is just walk to the mailbox to check your mail, that’s great, do that.
Do what you can do, do something. If you can do weights and the treadmill like I was able to do, again, another example of being lucky. Great. If all you can do is just one lap around your house, but you do it every day, do that, if that’s what you can do.
Joe: That’s fantastic advice, Lee. I know you’ve been talking to a lot of folks through your podcast about cancer and through other channels. How has your own perspective now changed on treatment, on cancer, on life because of that?
Lee: Well, I’ve learned a lot. I think the area that I’ve become much more aware of in talking to other people is the whole clinical trial space. It’s not an area that I’ve personally had to investigate, but I feel having learned from the people that I’ve interviewed, that I have more of a comfort level there, should I ever need to explore that. I’ve got some resources. That’s one of the biggest things, is that area. Again, as I interview people and talk to people, I keep finding examples that prove how lucky I am.
I don’t that you’ve experienced this yet, Joe, but I’ve published 115 plus podcasts now, probably 125. Four of my guests are no longer with us. Talk about leaving an impression. With four people, and two of those four I actually got to meet in person. They succumb to their disease. That’s hard, when you’ve actually interviewed these people and been inspired by these people and they’re not here anymore.
Joe: Yes, that’s tough, Lee. Sorry to hear that.
Joe: Lee, if someone wanted to check out your podcast, what is the best way to do that?
Lee: Any place people listen to music or podcasts on line, they’ll find me. It’s the wehavecancershow.com, if they want to go to my website. We’re on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, all the podcasts. Spotify. All of the major podcast players. Just look for We Have Cancer. You can also connect with me on social media. Please do. I’m on both Instagram and Twitter @wehavecancerpod. That’s P-O-D. Again, the website is: wehavecancershow.com. There’s also a Facebook page by the same name and a private Facebook group for those touched by cancer. You can find that on Facebook. Strictly at We Have Cancer.
Joe: Thank you so much, Lee. I love what you do. Thank you so much for coming in and for sharing your inspiration and advice.
Lee: Thank you for having me, Joe. Be well, my friend.
Joe: Thanks, you too.